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Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

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Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Taylor Swift on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 00:53

Northern Lights

After the title deciding match between Northern Lights and TI SPARTA!, we had numerous people contacting us concerning impersonation during the match. Girgensons had approached at least 4 players, asking them to impersonate his Northern Lights players for the match. After a lengthy discussion, we have come to the conclusion that because we can only prove intent, but not the actual impersonation, we cannot impose as severe a punishment as would have been necessary should it have been proven. But, because there is still doubt cast upon the match due to a number of factors, we have decided upon the following:

  • The match between Northern Lights and TI SPARTA! be replayed in full, before Tuesday 23rd October.
  • All players participating in this match will be asked to confirm their identity while in the room, via Teamspeak. Both captain's can request that players on the opposing team confirm themselves via the Chatbox as well, if necessary.
  • In addition, further anti-impersonation rules will be added for season 5, with severe consequences for any offenders.


NOTE: TI SPARTA! are allowed to refuse to play the replay, in which case, Northern Lights will receive a 3 point deduction.

Should both teams agree to the re-match, and fail to play it by the deadline, both teams will be given a 0:3 defloss for the fixture.


Last edited by Rachel on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 01:04; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Aidan on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 00:56

REFUSE TO PLAY AND NINO WILL BE FORGIVEN !



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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Cam_Sampbell on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 01:26

Any chance of the evidence/screenshots being shown?

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Taylor Swift on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 01:31

Cam_Sampbell wrote:Any chance of the evidence/screenshots being shown?

Girgensons admitted it, so no.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Girgensons on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 01:42

Long story short:
After a very long delay in the game vs NWA, which was scheduled to be played before our match vs Sparta, Falk went afk. As we were about to start the match vs Sparta, I realized that Falk isn't answering to me on TS and that he hasn't joined the room. Ovo made it clear that he doesn't agree to wait or delay the match by some minutes, so I approached several players to make sure that we wouldn't have to play 3vs4, effectively losing the game and the title.

As the match was about to start (I already sent one of the players I approached a link to the room), Falk came back. So none of the players were impersonated at any point in the game.

Due to the fact that nothing in the rules mentions anything about not posting links to players not currently in your team, not a single rule was broken. This was confirmed by every player who admitted they were approached by me.

If they lied, they wouldn't have told anything about me approaching them in the first place. Makes sense?

So, essentially, we're being punished for nothing.

The only reason why this is happening is that:
a) Arriba has a shot at winning the title;
b) most admins hate me.

Is this fair? Not at all.

Do I agree to replay the game? Yes, because I have no other options. We're the better team, we've earned the title and we'll win it for the second time, if such are the wishes of the admin team.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by ☮ ☆ noob ☆ ☮ on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 02:09

good luck Girgenson and to ur team Smile hope u win ^^

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by opc on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 02:13

So despite there being an intent to the rule being broken, so was no rule actually broken in the end? Well then having to replay the game is absolute bull shit.

Whatever the result of the replay, everyone knows that NL won the title and deserved to. If I was Girg I'd refuse the replay and make a mockery of the whole season, but that's just me.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by ☮ ☆ noob ☆ ☮ on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 02:17

like i said gd luck to NL and my opinion is that we got some sore losers in this league Smile piece brothers! lol

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by HCAFC on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 02:19

I think Girg is mafia

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by anglo on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 02:22

I can say this, this is too infected. Im not playing.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Girgensons on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 02:40

HCAFC wrote:I think Girg is mafia
cc inno on anglo

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by s.signorelli on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 03:26

tbh i dont see the big deal of it, just let it go honestly, i hear this is girg's last season, so let him end his career on a high note(if he chooses to retire). Smile

p.s despite me choosing to sign for cathletico, i still care about nl and im still willing to help them; as they gave me hope of captaining my own team, but this was not meant to be as it would broke some rules (which in my opinion is a load of bollocks, but that's just me). Razz

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Zizou on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 08:42

1st thing, if you push this one through then next season you will need to check identity of everyone every single game. Goodluck with that.
2nd thing, well the decision took you over a week don't you think its too late now? If this game was to be replayed then it should be replayed within hours after initial match...disappointing.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Lloyd Banks on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 08:46

it should be up to your team to verify your opponents if you are that bothered about it imo

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 08:57

No rule saying you can't link someone else to the room, so there's no reason for this to be played. If impersonation was proven then fair enough but atm it just looks like admins don't want NL to win the title. Also, if you start adding a shit load of more rules about impersonation then the league will become a joke. It's fine as it is.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Pedy on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 10:22

Was i impersonated? No.
Was Perkins impersonated? No.
Was Javier impersonated? No.

.......................

Was Falk impersonated? Nope.


Btw i remember when Joehan made all these weird rules like if you 'retire' you cant play after a certain time limit or some thing oh yeah and then there was the draft that went horribly wrong...
This season has been my first at FM and overall it wasnt the best experience except for being a part of the squad that won the title (but uhm yeah now is being stripped off it apparantly..)

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by OvoXo on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 11:02

I didn't want to replay it and just move on from it. No one in TIS made a complaint we just decided to move on.... Before anyone points the finger at TIS had to clear out name.

Second of all, season is over and playing it now kinda seems pointless and sucks, however we're forced to play it because if we say no then Arriba will win the title which they don't deserve imo.....

So yeah we'll have to replay it cus if we say no NL will get a 3 point deduction.

End of the day, tbh I would be happier to say no, but then arriba will win the title so ywah a dilemma :/

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Pedy on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 11:47

What would you make a complaint over?

oh right nothing cause there was nothing :O

OvoXo wrote:I didn't want to replay it and just move on from it. No one in TIS made a complaint we just decided to move on.... Before anyone points the finger at TIS had to clear out name.

Second of all, season is over and playing it now kinda seems pointless and sucks, however we're forced to play it because if we say no then Arriba will win the title which they don't deserve imo.....

So yeah we'll have to replay it cus if we say no NL will get a 3 point deduction.

End of the day, tbh I would be happier to say no, but then arriba will win the title so ywah a dilemma :/
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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Constantinople on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 12:00

Rachel wrote:Northern Lights

After the title deciding match between Northern Lights and TI SPARTA!, we had numerous people contacting us concerning impersonation during the match. Girgensons had approached at least 4 players, asking them to impersonate his Northern Lights players for the match. After a lengthy discussion, we have come to the conclusion that because we can only prove intent, but not the actual impersonation, we cannot impose as severe a punishment as would have been necessary should it have been proven. But, because there is still doubt cast upon the match due to a number of factors, we have decided upon the following:

  • The match between Northern Lights and TI SPARTA! be replayed in full, before Tuesday 23rd October.
  • All players participating in this match will be asked to confirm their identity while in the room, via Teamspeak. Both captain's can request that players on the opposing team confirm themselves via the Chatbox as well, if necessary.
  • In addition, further anti-impersonation rules will be added for season 5, with severe consequences for any offenders.


NOTE: TI SPARTA! are allowed to refuse to play the replay, in which case, Northern Lights will receive a 3 point deduction.

Should both teams agree to the re-match, and fail to play it by the deadline, both teams will be given a 0:3 defloss for the fixture.

Disagree with this tbh. The report says that Girgensons 'apporached' 4 players that don't play on his team. He admitted to this, but never played the approached players, meaning no impersonation occured. To use an example from Girg on chat, if I had a knife with the intent of stabbing someone but never drew my knife out on that person, I can't be punished for intending to kill someone. Plus TI Sparta feel like they are forced to play a fixture they don't really want to play, which seems unfair.

Overall, forget this playoff, award NL the title and leave it at that. Theres been a lot of controversy over the season. I think people are forgetting that Season 4 was a transitional season from 3s to 4s. There will be new rules made up over the way as we see fit. Let's just learn from our mistakes and forget about this and have a solid structure in place and rock solid rules present for Season 5.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Taylor Swift on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 12:08

We want the match replayed under our rules so that we know the match is fair - for certain. Eradicating any doubt. Nothing else.

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down the stairs, i was there, i remember it all too well

and maybe we got lost in translation, maybe i asked for too much
but maybe this thing was a masterpiece 'til you tore it all up
running scared, i was there, i remember it all too well

and you call me up again just to break me like a promise
so casually cruel in the name of being honest
i'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here
'cause i remember it all, all, all too well
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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Ghost on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 13:38

Quite frankly the way some of you are behaving is disgusting. Every single fucking one of you bitched and moaned and demanded we do something about it when the draft was cheated, and now that there is evidence of potential further cheating(not to mention the doubt it casts over potential previous fakenicks that may have happened) you want to turn a blind eye? Ridiculous.

I literally don't want to run a league for you any more, I'm out. Good luck next season.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by aeRo on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 13:43

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Taylor Swift on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 13:45

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'cause there we are again, in the middle of the night
we're dancing around the kitchen in the refrigerator light
down the stairs, i was there, i remember it all too well

and maybe we got lost in translation, maybe i asked for too much
but maybe this thing was a masterpiece 'til you tore it all up
running scared, i was there, i remember it all too well

and you call me up again just to break me like a promise
so casually cruel in the name of being honest
i'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here
'cause i remember it all, all, all too well
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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by <º)))< on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 14:14

The intention of cheating is crystal clear, and should be punished.

Otherwise this behaviour will be repeated.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by jonnyynnoj on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 14:59

Right, some clarification is in order I think.

Northern Lights are not being punished for attempting to impersonate. As much as I find that behaviour disgusting it isn't punishable. What they are being punished for though is casting serious doubt about the integrity of that game. Let me explain:

  • Girg messaged numerous players on teamspeak before the game asking if they could pretend to be falk. Girg has admitted to this.
  • Falk plays the first half with a very strange playstyle (anyone who has played with or watched him play before would notice big differences).
  • Falk has a constant 68 ping all the way through the first half, it literally doesn't change. At half time he leaves the room and takes about 5-10 minutes to re-join.
  • 2nd half he plays his usual playstyle, moving into DM and carrying his team forward. In the first half he played ST and did his best to stay out of defence.
  • His ping in the second half is completely different. He gets a minimum of 84 and a maximum of 100. Not only is that far from 68, it fluctuates a lot which doesn't make sense when his ping didn't change 1st half.

Replay: http://haxballtube.com/watch/dd9e2917d3

Now on their own those points mean nothing, but put them together and you've got some serious questions about whether that was actually falk who played that game.

So why push for a replay if it can't be proved? Because this is setting a precedent for future games. I have nothing against the 'innocent until proven guilty' thing but you have to realise that with regards to impersonation unless someone involved openly admits it you can never prove it; you essentially set yourself up to be exploited in the future. Therefore I took on the stance of whether there is 'reasonable doubt' or not and in this case, there is.

In hindsight, forcing a replay of this game was a bad move. If Sparta want to refuse the replay, so be it.

To be accused of doing this to stop NL winning the league is disappointing, to say the least. Northern Lights have been the best team in the league this season and I personally have no issues against them winning the league fairly.
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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Cam_Sampbell on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 15:17

^
The most sensible post about this by an admin so far.

All we knew originally was that there was the intention of impersonation, so obviously the punishments were going to seem harsh when not backed up by the further evidence to some people.

I think that it should be up to Ovo whether the replay is played or not, and if Ovo decides against it, then perhaps have something like a 3 point deduction for the start of next season, if NL decide to continue in the league. To deduct points now in this situation would just be ridiculous, and make the whole of the season pointless and farcical.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Aidan on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 15:47

Fuck off trying to guilt trip people, and thank you jonny for saying something sensible

Anway the rule for impersonation states - the team will be banned for the rest of the league ? So therefore this means that the game being brought into question should be the one of NWA vs NL ...

And id be delighted if falk wasnt playing and someone was impersonating him, if you said to ovo before the game falk cant play the first half he would be delighted. I know thats not the point but still.

I say we just leave it no one really cares if you are going to punish them, then to what sam said about them starting with a points deduction next season.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Aidan on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 15:48

Ghost wrote:Quite frankly the way some of you are behaving is disgusting. Every single fucking one of you bitched and moaned and demanded we do something about it when the draft was cheated, and now that there is evidence of potential further cheating(not to mention the doubt it casts over potential previous fakenicks that may have happened) you want to turn a blind eye? Ridiculous.

I literally don't want to run a league for you any more, I'm out. Good luck next season.


Did you even do anything this season ?


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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by mlfaijati on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 16:01


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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Girgensons on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 16:11

Why exactly should we get a point deduction? How does that make any sense at all?

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Aidan on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 16:15

to shut people up its next season no one cares

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Girgensons on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 16:16

Well, then maybe give us a point deduction in season 3?

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by opc on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 17:12

Best post in the thread from Jonny by a mile. It still doesn't explain why if TIS refuse the replay NL get a deduction. The result should stand if a replay is refused, otherwise NL are getting punished for something which isn't proven. Replaying and removing the doubt is the best option in my opinion, based on the information which is now available, but wasn't previously.

How some admins can expect others not to get the wrong end of the stick when they don't release all the information is beyond me.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by aeRo on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 17:21

Why people comment on something they don't fully understand is beyond me.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by opc on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 17:25

aeRo wrote:Why people comment on something they don't fully understand is beyond me.
When an admin releases a statement such as the one Rachel did, one expects it to contain the full facts.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by aeRo on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 17:37

opc wrote:
aeRo wrote:Why people comment on something they don't fully understand is beyond me.
When an admin releases a statement such as the one Rachel did, one expects it to contain the full facts.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Aidizzle on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 17:50

The team hasn't actually done anything wrong and they won the game fairly. If Girg has admitted intent, surely you should be throwing 50 shades of shit at him?

The game was played and won fair and square and would likely be that way again, a waste of time. Girg deliberately set out to find someone to impersonate and should be given an individual punishment.

Given that Girg admitted to it, the punishment should be chopped down.

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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by rolex on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 17:53

i dont understand y nl get -3 points if ti refuse either tbh

explain pls


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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

Post by Taylor Swift on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 17:58

all irrelevant

ovo turned down replay - will discuss another form of punishment

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running scared, i was there, i remember it all too well

and you call me up again just to break me like a promise
so casually cruel in the name of being honest
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Re: Northern Lights v TI SPARTA!

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